dual stage vs. single stage VTEC
09-07-2003, 08:26 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: driving a wolf in sheeps skin in, NY
Posts: 9,673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dual stage vs. single stage VTEC
ok lets here it, what is better? i just did my gsr swap with dual stage and some people say its better to convert it to single stage vtec, what are your opinions on this?
09-07-2003, 08:27 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, usa
Posts: 3,105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok lets here it, what is better? i just did my gsr swap with dual stage and some people say its better to convert it to single stage vtec, what are your opinions on this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
im guessing you're refering to the butterfly valves.. vtec opens @ 4800, secondary intake runners (butterfly valves) open up at 5500 (right?).
im guessing you're refering to the butterfly valves.. vtec opens @ 4800, secondary intake runners (butterfly valves) open up at 5500 (right?).
09-07-2003, 08:29 PM
#3
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
There is no single stage VTEC.
The stages relate to the intake manifold. GSRs have a "two stage" manifold where the secondaries open around 5800RPM...that sudden tone in the intake you hear, thats the secondaries opening.
ITR manifolds, Skunk2, etc...they are not "dual stage" manifolds. Depending on the extent of your modifications, these manifolds can be a decent upgrade. I havent seen any dynos of stock GSR motors with Skunk manifolds...maybe someone with one can chime in.
The stages relate to the intake manifold. GSRs have a "two stage" manifold where the secondaries open around 5800RPM...that sudden tone in the intake you hear, thats the secondaries opening.
ITR manifolds, Skunk2, etc...they are not "dual stage" manifolds. Depending on the extent of your modifications, these manifolds can be a decent upgrade. I havent seen any dynos of stock GSR motors with Skunk manifolds...maybe someone with one can chime in.
09-07-2003, 08:35 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: driving a wolf in sheeps skin in, NY
Posts: 9,673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is no single stage VTEC.</TD></TR></TABLE>
gsr's vtec kicks in at two different rpm's - dual stages of vtec
skunk2's and itr intake manifolds vtec kicks in all at once - one stage of vtec - this isnt considered single stage?
gsr's vtec kicks in at two different rpm's - dual stages of vtec
skunk2's and itr intake manifolds vtec kicks in all at once - one stage of vtec - this isnt considered single stage?
09-07-2003, 08:45 PM
#5
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: East Coast, VA
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
and if there is a 3 stage VTEC, there must be a 2 stage... I think some of us just get irratated hearing people talk about the intake manifold...
http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/3stagevtec.html
http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/3stagevtec.html
09-07-2003, 08:45 PM
#6
New User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
gsr's vtec kicks in at two different rpm's - dual stages of vtec
skunk2's and itr intake manifolds vtec kicks in all at once - one stage of vtec - this isnt considered single stage? </TD></TR></TABLE>
No...gsr has a dual stage intake manifold.
VTEC crossover is 4400.
The secondaries on the IM open up at approx 5800 (5750 i think exactly?).
gsr's vtec kicks in at two different rpm's - dual stages of vtec
skunk2's and itr intake manifolds vtec kicks in all at once - one stage of vtec - this isnt considered single stage? </TD></TR></TABLE>
No...gsr has a dual stage intake manifold.
VTEC crossover is 4400.
The secondaries on the IM open up at approx 5800 (5750 i think exactly?).
09-07-2003, 08:46 PM
#7
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
Youre misunderstood.
VTEC does not "kick in" twice. The manifold is designed to open up a "second stage" at ~5800RPM at wide open throttle. At WOT, VTEC was already engaged at 4400RPM. And only 4400RPM. There is only one stage of VTEC, ever.
The manifold is what is different, and it has nothing to with VTEC, just in the manifold design. What youre asking is, is there any benefit to having a single stage manifold like a Skunk2, versus a GSR manifold. Nothing to do with VTEC.
VTEC does not "kick in" twice. The manifold is designed to open up a "second stage" at ~5800RPM at wide open throttle. At WOT, VTEC was already engaged at 4400RPM. And only 4400RPM. There is only one stage of VTEC, ever.
The manifold is what is different, and it has nothing to with VTEC, just in the manifold design. What youre asking is, is there any benefit to having a single stage manifold like a Skunk2, versus a GSR manifold. Nothing to do with VTEC.
Trending Topics
09-07-2003, 08:49 PM
#8
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Omaha, NE, USA
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
VTEC engages at one rpm, 4400. Then at about 5800 the secondary butterflies open up, allowing more airflow to the engine. Most people think that it is a second stage of VTEC. It is not.
An Integra Type R doesn't have the secondaries that flip open at a different rpm. Same with the Skunk 2 Intake Manifold.
An Integra Type R doesn't have the secondaries that flip open at a different rpm. Same with the Skunk 2 Intake Manifold.
09-07-2003, 08:50 PM
#9
Nikon!!!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hell A, CA
Posts: 6,087
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
gsr's vtec kicks in at two different rpm's - dual stages of vtec
skunk2's and itr intake manifolds vtec kicks in all at once - one stage of vtec - this isnt considered single stage? </TD></TR></TABLE>
please do your research before you make yourself look stoopid again!
the gsr has a dual stage mani not dual stage vtec.
gsr's vtec kicks in at two different rpm's - dual stages of vtec
skunk2's and itr intake manifolds vtec kicks in all at once - one stage of vtec - this isnt considered single stage? </TD></TR></TABLE>
please do your research before you make yourself look stoopid again!
the gsr has a dual stage mani not dual stage vtec.
09-07-2003, 08:57 PM
#10
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (thaiphob)
No ones looking stupid...we can discuss this without insulting anyone...thats how people learn you know?
Everyone needs to remember they were once the guy showing off to their buddy how "loud their vtek was y0!" or talking about how fast they are since they chirp 3rd gear sometimes. Everyone has to learn things sometimes...no one knows it all and no one should look down on anyone else for trying to learn.
Everyone needs to remember they were once the guy showing off to their buddy how "loud their vtek was y0!" or talking about how fast they are since they chirp 3rd gear sometimes. Everyone has to learn things sometimes...no one knows it all and no one should look down on anyone else for trying to learn.
09-07-2003, 09:04 PM
#12
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the dalles, or, u.s.a
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
okay in case someone doesnt know VTEC stands for (Variable Timing Electronic Control) that should say it all. it has nothing to do with the intake manifold. the intake just has butterflies that open up for more top end air flow. i mean my honda passport has butterflies in the intake manifold that open up at 4000 rpm and it says nothing about having vtec. i have a gsr and the stock intake manifold is very restrictive. all that the butterlies are there for is a little better bottom end and better gas mileage. hope that helps 
09-08-2003, 12:47 AM
#13
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (blakacintegera)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blakacintegera »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">VTEC stands for (Variable Timing Electronic Control)</TD></TR></TABLE>
variable valve timing and electronic lift control
variable valve timing and electronic lift control
09-08-2003, 05:14 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No ones looking stupid...we can discuss this without insulting anyone...thats how people learn you know?
Everyone needs to remember they were once the guy showing off to their buddy how "loud their vtek was y0!" or talking about how fast they are since they chirp 3rd gear sometimes. Everyone has to learn things sometimes...no one knows it all and no one should look down on anyone else for trying to learn.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good guy
Everyone needs to remember they were once the guy showing off to their buddy how "loud their vtek was y0!" or talking about how fast they are since they chirp 3rd gear sometimes. Everyone has to learn things sometimes...no one knows it all and no one should look down on anyone else for trying to learn.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good guy
09-08-2003, 08:35 AM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: driving a wolf in sheeps skin in, NY
Posts: 9,673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
arrrright, well that helps alot... thanks. now i understand it a little better, ive had my first vtec motor and first gsr for about ohhh 2 days now. so i guess my real question is... how much will getting a skunk2 intake manifold benifit the "restrictive gsr manifold"? anyone have dyno results?
09-08-2003, 08:46 AM
#17
Darth ModerVader
Re: (dunkd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">arrrright, well that helps alot... thanks. now i understand it a little better, ive had my first vtec motor and first gsr for about ohhh 2 days now. so i guess my real question is... how much will getting a skunk2 intake manifold benifit the "restrictive gsr manifold"? anyone have dyno results?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The short answer is that, for the money and time/effort involved, there are more cost-effective modifications to do first, especially if you engine is near-stock.
The short answer is that, for the money and time/effort involved, there are more cost-effective modifications to do first, especially if you engine is near-stock.
09-08-2003, 08:53 AM
#18
Mad Scientist
Re: (dunkd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">arrrright, well that helps alot... thanks. now i understand it a little better, ive had my first vtec motor and first gsr for about ohhh 2 days now. so i guess my real question is... how much will getting a skunk2 intake manifold benifit the "restrictive gsr manifold"? anyone have dyno results?</TD></TR></TABLE>
it would actually kill your midrange. get some better cams first and then you can upgrade your im
it would actually kill your midrange. get some better cams first and then you can upgrade your im
09-08-2003, 09:52 AM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Flower Mound, TX, USA
Posts: 880
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (integraL)
Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control, actually 
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integraL »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
variable valve timing and electronic lift control</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integraL »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">variable valve timing and electronic lift control</TD></TR></TABLE>
09-08-2003, 12:21 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA, USA
Posts: 9,656
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (mmuller)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it would actually kill your midrange. get some better cams first and then you can upgrade your im</TD></TR></TABLE>
it would actually kill your midrange. get some better cams first and then you can upgrade your im</TD></TR></TABLE>
09-08-2003, 02:41 PM
#22
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Starbucks Most, Likely
Posts: 5,664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (GSRGuy17)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRGuy17 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control, actually </TD></TR></TABLE>
Not to add fuel to this already stupid post, but he was right about VTEC.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Not to add fuel to this already stupid post, but he was right about VTEC.
09-09-2003, 12:52 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (GreenGSR311)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GreenGSR311 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">VTEC engages at one rpm, 4400. Then at about 5800 the secondary butterflies open up, allowing more airflow to the engine. Most people think that it is a second stage of VTEC. It is not.
An Integra Type R doesn't have the secondaries that flip open at a different rpm. Same with the Skunk 2 Intake Manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This info can be found in the Factory Service Manual sold by helminc.com. If you're going to mod your car, get one of those.
An Integra Type R doesn't have the secondaries that flip open at a different rpm. Same with the Skunk 2 Intake Manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This info can be found in the Factory Service Manual sold by helminc.com. If you're going to mod your car, get one of those.
09-09-2003, 04:23 AM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MN
Posts: 12,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: dual stage vs. single stage VTEC (dunkd)
haha I saw this thread and I knew this dude was lost and need guidance.
well what everyone said so far is correct. upgrading your IM is one of the best mods you can do but only if you already have a mild setup .... meaning cams, cam sprokets, intake headers and a ok exhust.
for example on a bone stock GSR swaping out the manifold for a skunk2 you would loose power all across the powerband in TQ and HP, it won't to swqat for you.
now if you have say... itr cams and all of the above... you would see some nice gains of about 5-10whp peak. torque will definatly seem lower, which is perfectly normal. BTW the skunk2 IM on GSR motors have been talked to death about here in h-tech. do search and you'll find the answer.
HTH
well what everyone said so far is correct. upgrading your IM is one of the best mods you can do but only if you already have a mild setup .... meaning cams, cam sprokets, intake headers and a ok exhust.
for example on a bone stock GSR swaping out the manifold for a skunk2 you would loose power all across the powerband in TQ and HP, it won't to swqat for you.
now if you have say... itr cams and all of the above... you would see some nice gains of about 5-10whp peak. torque will definatly seem lower, which is perfectly normal. BTW the skunk2 IM on GSR motors have been talked to death about here in h-tech. do search and you'll find the answer.
HTH
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
