CubedRoot

I have a 1992 Integra. I just recently bought a rebuilt long block for the old girl and swapped everything in. The engine is running fine, and I have put about 20 miles on it, then I started hearing an odd knocking noise.

I peeked under the hood with the engine runing and noticed my crank pulley was wobbling a bit, knowing this to be a potential bad thing, I stopped the car and put it back in the garage, and haven't run it since. I also noticed that the crank pulley had been rubbing against the timing belt cover, almost wearing a hole in the cover.

Now, when I checked the crank pulley bolt torque, I am still seeing 180 ft-lbs on it. So, I took all the accesory belts off, leaving just the crank pulley on. I could rotate the pulley by hand about a degree in both clockwise and counter-clockwise on the crank shaft, and it wobbled a very small amount. It felt like the crank pulley bolt was not putting any force on the pulley itself. I had thought I left a timing belt guide washer off, so I took the timing belt covers off to inspect. Here is what I found.

I have the timing belt guide washer on both sides of the crank gear for the timing belt. The timing belt is not grinding against the covers and is running straight on all the pulleys and tensioner. I have the right amount of tension also. However, I noticed that when I put the crank pulley back on, the crank snout sticks out above the inner surface of the crank pulley a very small amount. Its enough that when I tourque the pulley bolt down, the bolts washer will seat against the crank snout but not seat against the pulleys surface, which allows it to wobble a bit.

For testing, I took a spare timing belt guide washer and placed it over the outside one, esssentially "doubling up" the timing belt guide washers on the outer side of the gear. This essentially made a shim that would let the crank pulley stay further out on the crank snout. Now, when I put the pulley on, the pulley surface is just slightly above crank snout, allowing the pulley bolt to seat against the crank pulley's surface instead of the snout. I was able to torque the crank pulley bolt down to 180 ft-lbs and the pulley no longer wobbles. It also sticks further away from the timing belt cover since I "shimmed' it with that spare guide washer. I left the power steering, AC, and alternator belts off and started the engine to see if it wobbles. The pulley ran true and didn't wobble a single bit, nor did it grind against the timing cover.

I then stuck the belts back on to see if this new spacing would cause them to run at an angle, and I was surprised to see that the belts looked like they lined up better on all the accessories.

Have any of you ever seen this? I have double checked that both the inside and outside timing belt guides are on the crank gear and are facing the proper direction. Do you think it will be OK to run the crank pulley with this additional timing belt washer on the outer part, between the timing gear and crank pulley as a shim?

This is a new rebuilt long block B18B1, and I have never seen anything like this. I hope my description makes sense.

EDIT: Title of this post says B18A1, but the engine is actually a B18B1...sorry!

Thanks!

wunfstgsr

If you have a obd2 timing belt pulley gear which has the star washer welded on you only need one washer on the outside notice #15 and #16 which is for a obd2 that has a crank sensor if you have the obd1 crank pulley the timing gear doesn't have the star gear for the crank pulley sensor and uses two washers one on each side. Notice #14 is the obd1 timing gear and you use two washers on each side #16 hope this sheds some light also make sure the wooddruff key #19 is installed so the crank pulley doesn't move of the crank.




This is how the obd2 timing gear looks like again.

CubedRoot

I have an OBD1 timing gear on my crank. It doesnt have the star piece welded for the position sensor.

So, in theory I should use a #16 washer/retainer on each side of the timing gear. I have verified that I have a #16 washer/retainer on the inside of the gear (next to the block). But, when I use a single #16 washer on the outside of the gear, my pulley slides to far onto the crank snout, causing the snout to be flush or sticking above the inside surface of my crank pulley causing my bolt to not apply very much pressure on the crank pulley itself, and leaving the pulley loose on the crankshaft (even with a new woodruff key).

I also went out and re-checked everything after posting my first post. If I use the standard set of 2 washers, on each side of the timing gear, and torque down my crank pulley bolt like this:
Block -- #16 washer -- timing gear -- #16 washer -- crank pulley
This is what happens:
1. Crank pulley feels loose, and I can jiggle it slightly as if the bolt is applying no pressure on the pulley, and applying all its pressure on the crank snout.
2. My belts don't fully line up. I can lower the AC idler pulley down and tighten it up and the grooves in it and the crank pulley do not line up. They are off a few thousands.
3. Starting the engine causes my crank pulley to wobble.

Now, if I assemble the stuff in this order:
Block -- #16 washer -- timing gear -- #16 washer --#16 washer -- crank pulley

The following happens:
1. Crank pulley is tight, no longer jiggles at all.
2. The AC idler pulley will align exactly with the grooves in my crank pulley.
3. Starting the engine and watching the crank pulley it no longer wobbles, and runs very true.

It appears for some reason I need that extra thousands of an inch provided by the additional #16 washer to align my crank pulley and allow the pulley bolt to clamp it down.

My car had a B18A1 from the factory, but since it had over 312k miles, and had issues, I ordered a new B18B1 long block from JIS engines. I spent 2 weekends getting the bolt ons from my old engine cleaned up and moved over to the new block, and then this happens. Is there any differences in the crank, crank pulley, or timing sets from a B18A1 and a B18B1? Do you guys think it would be OK for me to run my crank pulley with the additional #16 washer behind the crank pulley so that the pulley bolt grabs it instead of the crank snout? Its running true with no accesory belts on, and the acceseory belt grooves all line up perfectly.

My only concern is the amount of force that the pulley will be putting on the washer, timing gear and such since the crank pulley bolt is applying pressure on it and not the crank snout. I'd hate for it to ruin an oil pump or the seal around the crankshaft at the oil pump.

EDIT:
Another quick update:
I did a parts search trying to compare the B18A1 pulley and the B18B1 pulley.

B18A's were used in 1990-1993 Integras. The part number for the crank pulley is: 13811-PR4-003
As seen here: http://www.acurapartsforless.com/acu...ley-crankshaft

B18B1's were used in 1994 and up Integras, so a parts search reveals its part number to be: 13810-P75-013
As seen here: http://www.acurapartsforless.com/acu...ley-crankshaft

So, I wonder just how different those parts are since they have different part numbers. Is the B18A1 B18B1 crank pulleys really that different?

m4xwellmurd3r

Thats weird, I just rebuilt my engine last month and used an obd2 oil pump with my b18a1 timing gear and washers from an obd0 engine and everything lined up perfect.


The pulleys are different because the 1994+ use a serpentine belt for the power steering and the 90-93 uses a v groved belt

CubedRoot

Right? I have built and worked on several B-series engines and never seen this before.

As an update, I called JIS Engines (The folks whom I bought the long block from), and they were pretty awesome. The engine is still under warranty from them, and they asked me to pull it and they will pay to freight it back to them so they can change the crankshaft.

So, as much as it kinda sucks to pull this engine (not really, since its not hard to do hehe) I will be pulling it this weekend, and prepping it to ship back to JIS so they can swap the crank. They are paying freight both ways which I thought was pretty awesome. So, I would have to highly recommend them if you folks are looking for a long block, short block or rebuilt head. They are great with customer service.

Once I get the engine back, I will measure eveything once again, and post back here for an update. I would much rather have a crank snout that didnt require jimmying with an additional washer/guide.

m4xwellmurd3r

Yeah it sounds like something was screwy with the crank shaft. Never heard of that one before